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The protesters and what is going down right now
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Be_You_
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 Posted: Fri Oct 28th, 2011 02:43 pm

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I'm not sure how accurate it is to say the violence by Watts rioters was overlooked, but I'm quite sure that it is wrong to fault peaceful protesters for not acting while a problem is still out on the horizon.



 

Abby1964
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 Posted: Fri Oct 28th, 2011 03:22 pm

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By comparison, the Watts riots were a minor inconvenience to those in power. This Occupy movement is not. But you also don't see the powers that be falling over themselves to change anything.

The problem with waiting is the violence that accompanies the protest. The Prtesters did not offer any violence from what I can see it was a peaceful demonstration and look at the results. How long is it going to stay peaceful? How many times will idiots with 'tin star' mentality and a badge do exactly what we have already seen before protesters retaliate? And how long from there before we are looking at a repeat of the Revolution?

Then just like now, you had the powers that be greabbing what they could and ignoring the people who had to deal with the results, the average citizen ignoring it until they fell victim to the greed and then getting involved when the only viable solution they could see was violence. Mr Olsen is not quite a martyr thank God, but he is a very good example of what happens when protest is engaged in until a situation becomes volatile.



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LastBrunnenGstanding
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 Posted: Thu Nov 3rd, 2011 11:37 pm

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The bad apples in the protest are now out of control. Why do they have to smash windows and tag stores with paint. Or hit a hood of this lady's Benz she panic and ended up hitting to people. Wtf those stupid people are making the other peaceful protesters fighting for the cause look really bad. The madness is still going on poor Oakland like they need this crap. They have enough to deal with as it is before this occupation happened. The news is eating it up covering the violence and stupidity of those idiots. That people are forgetting the reason to why they are protesting in the first place just reticules. Now the revolutionary clashing scenario is right around the corner. It's a volcano getting ready to erupt peace will not hold out much longer only a matter of when will shit hit the fan :new_shocked:

:icon_lexx::BULLWHIP::catfight::hlight::u055a::xdiablo:

Last edited on Fri Nov 4th, 2011 12:10 am by LastBrunnenGstanding



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Abby1964
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 Posted: Fri Nov 4th, 2011 08:28 am

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LastBrunnenGstanding wrote: The bad apples in the protest are now out of control. Why do they have to smash windows and tag stores with paint. Or hit a hood of this lady's Benz she panic and ended up hitting to people. Wtf those stupid people are making the other peaceful protesters fighting for the cause look really bad. The madness is still going on poor Oakland like they need this crap. They have enough to deal with as it is before this occupation happened. The news is eating it up covering the violence and stupidity of those idiots. That people are forgetting the reason to why they are protesting in the first place just reticules. Now the revolutionary clashing scenario is right around the corner. It's a volcano getting ready to erupt peace will not hold out much longer only a matter of when will shit hit the fan :new_shocked:

:icon_lexx::BULLWHIP::catfight::hlight::u055a::xdiablo:
Unfotunately this is what happens.  Peaceful protests never stay peaceful.  People don't protest when they still have hold of their tempers.  they wait until everything has gone to hell and tempers are short. 



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 Posted: Fri Nov 4th, 2011 02:45 pm

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Yesterday, they held a hearing trying to "work" some sort of compromise with them. That they are letting them stay at occupied Oakland id
If they stop the violence. They also gave the number number of arrested 332 I think it was. 32 Of them live in Oakland. I was surprise by this normally the troublemakers are outsiders. Idk what they can do they are overwhelm under siege. It looks as if it a war zone they started a fire last night. Something really bad will happen its just building up.



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Abby1964
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 Posted: Fri Nov 4th, 2011 02:55 pm

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This is the normal process.  Everyone is fed up already when the protesting starts.  Then you have the tin star idiots (The small minority of Psychos who managed to fool someone into giving them a badge and a gun) use this as a reason to prove they have a pair by in general harassing the protesters instead of leaving them alone when no one is being violent or disruptive.

Then you have the hotheads among the protesters who use the idiots as an excuse to show their asses.  Things just escalate from there.  On one hand you have people with legitimate greviances and on the other you have the 'royalty' who refuse to give up their perceived God given right to step on everyone else.

The end result is violence.   You can't let someone grow used to the image that they are 'entitled' and then try to tell them that they are not.  This is the problem.  At this late date, protesters are trying to tell corporations that they are not entitled to walk all over the people when they have been doing it all along.



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 Posted: Fri Nov 4th, 2011 04:50 pm

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Abby1964 wrote: This is the normal process.  Everyone is fed up already when the protesting starts.  Then you have the tin star idiots (The small minority of Psychos who managed to fool someone into giving them a badge and a gun) use this as a reason to prove they have a pair by in general harassing the protesters instead of leaving them alone when no one is being violent or disruptive.

Then you have the hotheads among the protesters who use the idiots as an excuse to show their asses.  Things just escalate from there.  On one hand you have people with legitimate greviances and on the other you have the 'royalty' who refuse to give up their perceived God given right to step on everyone else.

The end result is violence.   You can't let someone grow used to the image that they are 'entitled' and then try to tell them that they are not.  This is the problem.  At this late date, protesters are trying to tell corporations that they are not entitled to walk all over the people when they have been doing it all along.

True I do not disagree with both the post of your explanations and I understand you Abby, just want this to stop already. Oakland has enough problems with crime and violece as it is. People all ready fear in some parts not all of Oakland is bad but for those bad parts people are just getting shot by a stray bullet passing throw their walls of their home. Or been wrong place wrong time by a drive by shooting also there had been a lot of innocent toddlers been the victims of such things.  My brother in law was a cop for Oakland he said it was dangerous and had a lot of action. At the same time he understood not all people were bad and were just trying to make a living and he would serve and protect so they did their best to make sure they can have that safety. Oakland has a long bloody history and is not giving up on trying to clean up it's streets. They are blaming the Mayor for this mess and it's not fair she seems to really want to help Oakland. Not just that they closed the port down that coast money to the truckers unable to load and unload same with the ships. They are coasting us a lot of money with repairs and man power. Mostly since California had lay offs when it came to law enforcement because of budget cuts so they can easily be over powered if they are not careful. There is to many people the idiots will eventually take over the peacefulness and the authority will be overwhelmed because of the lack of man power. It's just what I feel will happen and why I think this should stop before it get to that point of no return and they will have to kiss their butts goodbye. Leaving the after mass debt even more outrageous for the people to pay thanks a lot to those stupid idiotic protesters. The poor people who are trying to be peaceful and keep it that way will be powerless to help control the raitors. There is a small number but it will eventully take over and make a freanzy. Like they did the year Oaklang lost the super bowl only this is way on a larger scale.



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Abby1964
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 Posted: Fri Nov 4th, 2011 04:58 pm

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We can only hope that someone with a cooler head will step up and take charge on both sides.  There is so much water under the bridge right now that it will be difficult.  It's not just the poor that are suffering it is the average American family.

It's hard to expect people to to keep their cool when they are looking at no jobs and families to feed and house.  It's difficult to tell someone to calm down when their home is getting ready to go into foreclosure (Or already there), the company they work for is downsizing and cutting jobs (And these same people can feel the axe hanging over them and they are already one paycheck away from disaster).  And then they look at executives making millions each year while their own family starves.



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LastBrunnenGstanding
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 Posted: Fri Nov 4th, 2011 05:11 pm

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My parents are not in that jam of losing their home but my dad is starting to feel that squeeze. They are not struggling but he has cut back on things to make sure they have emergancy cash on hand.



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Be_You_
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 Posted: Sun Nov 6th, 2011 02:09 pm

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LastBrunnenGstanding wrote: The bad apples in the protest are now out of control. Why do they have to smash windows and tag stores with paint. Or hit a hood of this lady's Benz she panic and ended up hitting to people.
LBGstanding, I have no doubt that some protesters are bad apples, but with regard to the pedestrians being struck by a Mercedes, I'm afraid some of your facts are not accurate.

While it has indeed been alleged that the protesters hit the hood of the car at some point, there is no dispute that it was a male driver who struck two of them with the vehicle, violently knocking them to the ground and resulting in their hospitalization. I wasn't there, but I've seen and heard of similar situations before.

Typically a driver gets frustrated and feels they are being unlawfully "imprisoned" by a steady and unbroken stream of marchers blocking their way. They try to push their way through the crowd with their vehicle which scares those pedestrians immediately next to the front of the car since they are trapped between the car and the marchers behind them. They slap the hood of the car and then the driver goes really crazy.

Saying it was a woman driver makes it seem more plausible that the driver was not at fault; that the woman was scared, but if you can find a credible news source that says it was a woman, I'd like to see it. That's probably something that was made up on one of the right-leaning radio stations around here.

Make no mistake, regardless of the legality of pedestrians crossing against a light or otherwise blocking an intersection, the California Vehicle Code forbids drivers from conducting their vehicles in any manner which may endanger same. The driver should have been cited at the very least.

(Incidentally, it is a credit to the reserve and self-control of the Occupy protestors that the driver was not torn from his car and beaten.)

 

BU

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2011/11/03/state/n050100D92.DTL

LastBrunnenGstanding
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 Posted: Sun Nov 6th, 2011 08:53 pm

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Be_You,

The day I wrote the car incident they said it was a woman. It wasn't till a day or something later they said a male driver. Sorry I did not go back and fix my statement after the new information. They also said that they did not do anything to him. Just toke his information and let him go. I agree they should have cited him he could have killed both or one. I have never been the only car in a large crowd of people like they man. So I do not know what I would do just hope they will pass and leave my car intact. By that I mean that the instigators would not want to target my car by smashing the windows. As they have done with the building that would be the only worry I'd have. If my son was in the car with me it would amplify that stress. But you are right once I got the facts straight on what happened. The guy in the car was at fault. Thank you for pointing it out and clarifying for me and editing the fact for me since I forgot to do it.

 

Last edited on Sun Nov 6th, 2011 09:00 pm by LastBrunnenGstanding



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 Posted: Mon Nov 7th, 2011 05:35 am

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LBGstanding, my source for the story - the Chronicle/SFGate - got the facts right on the report which was filed just a few hours after the event, but I have no trouble believing that other media sources got it wrong.

Years ago, some close friends were victims of a violent crime and every one of the three local TV News broadcasts which covered the story got at least one major element of the story completely wrong. Each news report's absurdly glaring factual error was different from the others' - it was almost as though they made a game of it.

Later, I had a job at a newspaper. I learned that when the paper is put together, the advertisements went in first and then the stories were layed in between the ads in the available space left over. If a story ran into an ad, it was clipped short at that point, and all newspaper stories are written so that can be done without it being obvious.

We have the perception that when we read the paper or watch TV news that we are consumers of the news product, but the reality is that we are the product being sold to advertisers. The advertisers - who pay either the sum total or at least the lion's share of the cost of putting a newspaper or TV production in front of our eyes, don't care so much about the facts, but simply require our attention.

The facts are of secondary importance, and that is why it pays to take everything you see on - or in - the news with a big grain of salt; and that of course goes double for highly questionable news sources such as ABC-Disney News and FOX.

In the video which was shot after "Mercedes boy" plowed into the two protesters, it can be seen that one of the cops who rushed to the scene later pounded on the punk's hood to urge him to get moving after he was told to leave. Obviously the cop thought there might be a dangerous situation brewing, but the arrogant bastard behind the wheel either couldn't or wouldn't see it. Is that the hood slapping which was alleged by some regarding this story? Quite possibly so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SM5tZp34YPE

I've been a not-infrequent participant in protests since I was a child carrying signs against the war in Vietnam, and mostly they are fun with just a bit of righteous anger thrown in. A good way to meet people, share ideas, get exercise and communicate your feelings to the world.

It is only the small fringe of vandals and their equal number of radicals among the police who merit being called "instigators." Here's the URL of an essay breaking it down:

http://blog.buzzflash.com/node/13127

Protesting is as American as apple pie and it's the only way so many improvements might have come about in this country during its history such as the end of slavery, universal suffrage (women's right to vote),  and the eight-hour work day.

Last edited on Mon Nov 7th, 2011 05:39 am by Be_You_

LastBrunnenGstanding
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 Posted: Fri Nov 11th, 2011 02:08 am

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Not against protesting and people making sure their voice is heard and change is made. They are fighting for a good thing. Now for the news I told you when the story got out they said it was a woman.(Next day but I didn't watch the news till the day after) is when they said it was a man he was at fault and hurt this two people. Lately, I have not watched the news so I do not know what is going on. So I do not know what happened regarding the driver and the two protesters who got hit.

Last edited on Fri Nov 11th, 2011 02:11 am by LastBrunnenGstanding



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 Posted: Fri Nov 11th, 2011 06:24 pm

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LastBrunnenGstanding wrote: The bad apples in the protest are now out of control.What you are seeing may not necessarily be what is true. Keep in mind, most news comes from corporately owned 'news outlets' so are not necessarily objective. Just because someone has been associated with the Occupy movement, doesn't mean that the movement supports an individual's inappropriate actions. It seems to me that in many cases the 'news' is going out of their way to paint the protesters in a negative light. http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/29683079/detail.html
Also, some on the troublemakers are infiltrators who are purposely trying to make the movement look bad. Police records released from protest files back in the 70's, documented multiple incidents of infiltrators as well as specific activists that were surveilled for many years.

BTW what if we were to do away with golden parachutes?  You know, put the fat cats on a 'pay for performance system' :cat01::bouncebig:



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 Posted: Fri Nov 11th, 2011 07:38 pm

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I have come to understand things better and I can now see the medias true face, thanks to Abby, Be_you_, and your post CheshireKat. Now I can telling people the things you told me. Thanks for opening my eyes and seeing the truth as you guys can still see I am a noob on this subjects. I am kinda young to not using it as an excuse just not sure were to get the correct facts. Like you guys have and do learning and memorizing lol :bounce_pinka:

Last edited on Fri Nov 11th, 2011 07:48 pm by LastBrunnenGstanding



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~I would make a very bad killer in real life because I don't think I could even pick up a gun, much less actually shoot one. Guns make me very nervous. They're dangerous. I'm more of a pacifist than anyone could imagine.~ Christopher Walken

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