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Zev/Xev and Stan
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Be_You_
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 Posted: Sun May 29th, 2011 01:56 pm

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Dynamic between Stan and Zev/Xev through the seasons.

In the original movie, IWHS, there is a point when Stan has become captain of the Lexx and has Zev in his arms and she's looking closely and lovingly at his face. I think it might have gone poorly for old Stan because of that cluster lizard females-eating-the-males thing. but she was his for the taking - at least a passionate kiss.

That changed shortly thereafter when Stan acted in a completely craven manner - again - when faced with the appearance of the Divine Shadow on the scene. Thereafter Zev/Xev was stuck in a pattern of looking upon Stan with what was predominantly a mixture of disdain and benign neglect.

I think Season Three's Garden is the episode where things started to change back for Stan. Xev had gone through a near-death experience while stranded on Fire during the time Prince impersonated her in The Key, and Stan was instrumental in her rescue at the beginning of that episode.

Later in the episode it become clear that Stan had finally found a place where he could have all his sexual frustrations put behind him and he absently offers her the key to the Lexx. Xev finds that Kai has decided to let himself decompose thus representing a formidable signal to her that the dead man would hold little or no promise for her.

After she sees Stan in the company of the loving and lovely gardeners, I think Xev suddenly finds within herself some feeling of desire towards Stan for the first time since that very first episode. This is not an unfamiliar dynamic from the "real" world - human nature is such that those who are desired by others seem more desirable in general... and those most desperate to find love are sometimes the least likely to find it.

Your thoughts?

Last edited on Sun May 29th, 2011 02:07 pm by Be_You_

Abby1964
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 Posted: Sun May 29th, 2011 04:25 pm

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I don't know about that. In IWHS Zev has just been given the accelerated libido and hadn't yet adjusted to it. It seems to be more a case of male and breathing and Stan probably would have 'benefited' if not for the arrival of Kai; younger, better looking, more courageous and more confident. After all it is normal for the female of any species to imprint on the 'dominant' male especially in situations when the population is low/threatened with extinction. Also she was now part cluster lizard and the cluster lizard's instinct would definitely have urged her to pursue the stronger male.

Kai was the dominant male on board the Lexx; he was the 'protector', so Stan never had a chance. And throughout the series Kai was the one that the women preferred except for Garden but in this case the women seemed to be programmed to 'grant' what the male wanted. Stanley wanted his sexual needs filled and Kai wanted to be dead.

Yes I know Stanley got the girls in Walpurgis Night/Vlad but not because they wanted Stan, but as a means to get to Kai so Vlad could destroy him.

And Xev did care about Stan, she just was not sexually attracted to him. She proved more than once that there was some depth of feeling for Stan.

In Terminal she already had the key and Stan was frozen in a cryopod there was really no reason for her to her to look for medical treatment. And yet she did even using the Lexx to convince the doctors to treat him when they could not pay for the treatment.

Then in Twilight when Stan is sick there is no reason once again for her to try to get treatment for him because she already had gotten the key from him once and Kai knew enough about the key to know that if Stan had died the key would have gone to Xev since the moth breeders were still locked in their cells. Once again she demonstrated some level of feelings for Stan.

I think she saw Stan more as a brother figure, and that view was pretty much maintained throughout the series.



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 Posted: Sun May 29th, 2011 06:27 pm

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Hey Abby,

Firstly, of course, we have to remember we're discussing a TV show... which was written by several different writers... and whose plot limitations metamorphosed over the years in several respects.

That said, while your theory concerning the necessity for Zev to adjust to her conditioning isn't at all implausible,  I'm not sure any basis for such a belief besides Zev's change in focus can be identified either. I'm not saying you are wrong, and clearly Zev's love impulse became keyed directly towards Kai after he became the obvious hero figure on board the Lexx, but I will stop short of agreeing that Kai was the "dominant male" on board the Lexx because he didn't have much will of his own. I will stipulate that he was "dominant-like."

You certainly are correct in pointing out that Xev cared about Stan even though she was disgusted by the notion of having sex with him, but that isn't my point. As I said, her feelings towards him were predominantly - but not entirely - comprised of a mixture of disdain and benign neglect. My position is simply that the possibility that she might come to love him arose again for the first time in Garden.

I didn't mention this in my original post on this thread, but I think it was in Garden, or the episode just previous to The Key, when Prince reminded Xev of the brutality of her upbringing, another life-changing experience which might plausibly have brought her to feel more amenable to skipper Stan who'd become most familiar to her over the intervening years.

And of course there is the fact that Xev had fallen for Prince in the opening show of the season and she was subsequently forced to realize that he was bad for her and that her instincts might be worth re-analyzing. And in K-Town, Xev had found out exactly what was in the dead man pants - which couldn't have been very encouraging for the frustrated love slave

Stan was going through some personal growth experiences throughout the show too - just as any progenitor in fine literature will - and he isn't the same Stan who cravenly offered up Zev as a target to the Blackpack-armed DS guards in Lexx 1.01.

I think all these things go into allowing us to - and perhaps I'm destined to be shot down here, so I'll say "possibly" - believe that in the end, in Yo Way Yo, when Xev and Stan are in each other's arms on the newly born Baby Lexx, that some real loving fireworks are finally going to come to pass between the two of them.

I've mentioned sci-fi great Robert A. Heinlein before in my commentary, and I'll do so again here with regard to your suggestion that Xev only looks upon Stan as a sister might look upon a brother. While what you say is true for the vast majority of the show, Heinlein believed - I think he stated most clearly through his character Lazarus Long within the covers of Time Enough For Love - that there is only one kind of love: Agape and Eros are terms that only properly pertain to the manner of demonstrating such affection.

Last edited on Sun May 29th, 2011 06:38 pm by Be_You_

Abby1964
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 Posted: Sun May 29th, 2011 08:21 pm

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When I used the term 'dominant male' I was not referring to his will, I'm referring to the fact that he is the physically stronger, more courageous of the two and better suited to the role of protector/provider. In the animal kingdom this is the one the female will be drawn to.

Yes in K-Town Xev finally realizes what Kai has been trying to get her to understand all along-that it does not work when she sees that it is in fact 'missing'. But even though she now knows without a doubt Kai is off the list, she still does not turn to Stan, she turns to everyone but Stan.

Even with an accelerated libido, six sheets to the wind and faced with Stan's double; she still does not see him as a sexual possibility in The Rock.

And don't forget she did in fact finally get 'Kai' in Fluff Daddy and like any self respecting cluster lizard she ate him. Yes Stan did grow during the series and Stan and Xev did grow closer but more in the manner of siblings than in any sexually based way.

I personally do not buy into the theory that there is only one type of love, there are different types of love and these different types are manifested in the different relationships that we develop. The love a mother feels for her child is nothing like the love that same mother would feel for the father of that child, it's two different things. In all honesty when you look at it What Xev(specifically) felt for Stan was much closer to unconditional love than what she felt for Kai which was more a case of lust.

Last edited on Sun May 29th, 2011 08:24 pm by Abby1964



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 Posted: Mon May 30th, 2011 12:54 am

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Well argued Abby.

I understand your meaning when you describe Kai as the dominant male, and I hope you are not offended that I yet might find reason to expound on my slightly divergent theories concerning Z/Xev, Stan and Kai.

For instance, though I'm quite certain that strength and courage are - as you suggest - key attributes which females generally judge as paramount in seeking a mate, I think this schema can be a bit overwrought and there has been a tendency to do so ever since Spencerian Darwinism came to be the darling philosophy of the power elite... I hope I'm not going to far afield here, but humans are not apes and while in the ape world, the oldest and meanest silverback gets all the females, that clearly isn't the way it works for higher primates and many other mammals, where there may be more subtle processes at work.

I am sure that I run the risk of you thinking me persnickety - or someone who has a pecuniary interest in promoting the writing of Robert Heinlein - but your mention of courage calls to mind Heinlein's definition for it. The crux of it was that courage is shown when one overcomes fear which would otherwise inhibit action. While Kai clearly exhibited courage during life in the opening scene of IWHS, under Heinlein's definition I'd say he couldn't actually exhibit courage during his death. He just didn't care about himself. Confident, effective, knowledgeable, and even good - these are attributes I think can unequivocally be associated with the dead Kai, but not courage.

(Heinlein tells the story - and I'm afraid I can't remember in which volume I read it - of men in a hospital ward during the war. The men had suffered chest wounds and in order for them to be healed, each day a doctor had to pressurize their chest cavities so as to hold their injured lungs immobile. I may be doing the story some injustice here, but the point was that all the men were lined up to get this treatment and a young replacement doctor was on the job when one of the men suddenly dropped dead on the bench after the needle was stuck in him. A misdirected needle had sent a bubble into the man's blood stream causing instant death. After the next man similarly dropped dead, all treatments were stopped for the morning. The surprise ending of the story was that the autopsy of the second man who died revealed that he had not had an air embolism as the first man had had, but rather had died of fright-induced heart failure. Heinlein believed he proved his supreme bravery because he had died of a fright which nonetheless didn't stop him from getting up on the treatment table after the other man's death. I don't know whether or not this is a made-up story, but I think it got Heinlein's point across.)

I have not just re-watched The Rock, but I think when you refer to the tipsy Xev and Stan, you are actually referring Stan's impostor - not Stan, and not at all a nice fellow. Notice that Xev precisely didn't go for this character - whose name escapes me at this moment, despite him being a bit of a ladies man and carouser in Newfoundland. (Amazing too - I'll say as an aside - how Brian Downey was able to so convincingly change into a character which was so at odds with his familiar one... similar to in The Net/The Web when he was possessed by the malicious spider creature.)

I think it is possible that you can come up with some examples of later episodes where Xev showed the same complete disregard towards Stan's potential as a mate as she had previous to Garden and subsequent to IWHS - and as I wrote there were different writers and different perspectives which might explain such anomalies - but I maintain that in Garden, Xev had again come to feel at somewhat covetous of Stan's affection. How else can you explain the scene - just after seeing Kai half buried in mulch - where she sits by a reflecting pool and her past interactions with Stan and Kai flash before her eyes? She asks the carp in the pool "What should I do?" and she sings to herself the gardeners song. I think she's jealous.

Have I gotten anybody else angry at me for expounding on this theory? Anybody beside me think the idea of Stan and Xev raising a family on the Baby Lexx is plausible?

BU

Last edited on Mon May 30th, 2011 01:18 am by Be_You_

Abby1964
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 Posted: Mon May 30th, 2011 05:08 am

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In the Rock I am referring to the fact that it was Stan's 'double' but Xev did not know this at that point. If she had any sexual urges toward Stan, being plastered would have taken care of her inhibitions but it did not.

As far as Xev seeking the dominant male, humans still maintain this instinct. The golddigger looking for a rich husband is looking for that rich husband because she sees wealth as a type of dominance, the same can be said if you are speaking of fame, physical appearance, choice of career etc. You also have to remember that although she looks human, Xev is not completely human she is also part cluster lizard and is greatly influenced by that part of her genetic makeup.

I think what she displayed in Garden was about her feelings on being 'left behind'. Xev has major abandonment issues. Stan was happily enjoying the gardeners and Kai was happily attempting to decompose. It appeared that both Stan and Kai had what they wanted and would have been quite happy where they were but there was really no place for her. In a way Stan and Kai were abandoning her, not physically leaving her but emotionally abandoning her by finding their own 'happiness'.



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 Posted: Mon May 30th, 2011 11:54 am

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Good points you make Abby - thought I suspect that your use of the term "gold-diggers" is just for brevity, and that you aren't saying that women in general act in the completely loveless and greedy manner often associated with that term.

You could easily be right that Xev was simply feeling left-behind, but perhaps it was somewhat more complex than that...

Something about the version of Garden that I just re-watched suddenly struck me is that the obvious drug reference was edited out of it. In the original show, Xev was having flashbacks and talking to fishes after eating colorful mushrooms: she was tripping her brains out.

The episode, incidentally, was produced right around the same time that the U.S. Office of Drug Control Policy was - in a questionably legal manner - actually spending U.S. taxpayer dollars to "incentivize" television shows to weave anti-drug messages into their scripts. I suppose that scene - and the whole of Season Four's The Trip which is similarly missing from Hulu - demonstrates just how subversive Lexx was.

http://www.google.com/search?sclient=psy&hl=en&complete=0&prmdo=1&tbs=ar%3A1&tbm=nws&source=hp&q=%22office+of+drug+control+policy%22+%22anti+drug+messages%22+television&btnG=Search

http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v00/n043/a09.html

I still think that when Xev saw the pretty gardeners completely putting her out of Stan's mind, that she could have been feeling just a little bit of jealousy towards them, but maybe it was the drugs affecting her thinking - just as you suggest her immoderate alcohol consumption should have done in The Rock.

Her interaction with Stan's doppelganger Brud in The Rock doesn't bolster my case I'll concede, but what does it establish? One might assume that alcohol would lower Xev's inhibitions and that since she'd once before considered doing the deed with Stan when faced with the impending end of the universe, that plastered out of her wits and presented with a quite dominant-acting version of the man, she might have been more amenable. Maybe the cluster lizard in her is an angry - rather than friendly - drunk?

Can we at least agree that if in Season Five Xev would have given herself up to ol' Stan the Stunner - and that if he'd not been promptly eaten right after the first time - that they then would certainly have ended up naming their first born child Kai?

Last edited on Mon May 30th, 2011 12:00 pm by Be_You_

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 Posted: Mon May 30th, 2011 12:08 pm

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Be_You_ wrote: Can we at least agree that if in Season Five Xev would have given herself up to ol' Stan the Stunner - and that if he'd not been promptly eaten right after the first time - that they then would certainly have ended up naming their first born child Kai?
I just can't picture a baby cluster lizard rolling around with a little #4 Stan hat.



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 Posted: Mon May 30th, 2011 02:32 pm

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No I'm not saying that all women are golddiggers but there are some, some men qualify too.

I agree that Xev could have been experiencing some jealousy just not over Stan, more to the points of Stan and Kai being happy and she is not.

I do have to go back to your earlier comment and say I think you are selling Kai short on the courage issue. Obviously when he regains his memory and will he regains some of who he was before he died because he starts making choices out of character for a mindless assassin or even someone who believes in the Divine Order.

The first moment is when he refuses to kill Stan and Zev and challenges HDS. This could very well be a cased of the powerless 'slave' destroying the master that had enslaved him for centuries and forced he to do things that were against his nature. But he continues to make choices and display behavior counter to what you would expect as Divine Order programming.

He clearly displays at the very least a knowledge of right and wrong and a sense of Justice in Stan's Trial. First when he steps up to defend Stan and then when he leaves Stan to face execution. When he discovers that Jihana does not intend justice he steps in again and gives Stan the option "Do you want me to be the agent of justice." The Divine Order would not have known justice if it jumped up and bit it on the ass.

Kai also continually steps in the path of danger. He is under no orders or compulsion to do so. He does so because he chooses to to even though there is no real payoff for him. The best examle of this is the "Vlad" plotline. Kai hunts for her. There's no reason for him to do so that we know of at first. Though the interaction between Kai and Xev we learn that she is dangerous. It is not until he actually faces Vlad that we realize just how dangerous she is to him personally.

We know that he can not win against her but he still faces her because the 'safe' option would have been to let LEXX eat all of Earth except Europe and then blow the planet up. The people of Earth really meant nothing to Kai but he chooses the option that would save lives and 'guarantee his death rather than taking the option that would have destroyed Vlad while remaining safe.

Vlad is a good reminder, that is not really the Divine Order's way. So This had to come from Kai himself without the Divine Order's programming to override it, his personality and character resurfaced in death. He became what he had been, simply a 'dead' version.

Last edited on Mon May 30th, 2011 02:33 pm by Abby1964



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 Posted: Mon May 30th, 2011 06:15 pm

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Abby, I am not characterizing all women as the same either when I - dangerously - repeat an opinion which is not original but which I think is in great part true: that women sometimes think in groups with respect to the suitability of specimens of the opposite sex. (Perhaps men are like that too, though were more accurately branded with the label of being willing to jump at anything that moves.)

As regards women, what I mean is that the fellow most likely to be favored is the one who is already popular. Conversely, one negative opinion about a guy spoken among a group of women can spoil a fellow's chances with all of them, much more so than the other way around. Women will tend to never be as interested in a man as one she can steal from another woman... this phenomenon which I'll call the home-wrecker syndrome might be related to vestigial lower primate behavior. Geez. I'm probably in lots of trouble on the Lexx forum now...

Anyhow, this bit of thinking on my part - whether right or wrong - is what goes into my supposition that Xev was suddenly finding herself longing for Stan's affection in Garden.

As for what you say about Kai, upon further consideration I think there is truth there. Even before he touched the brain bits of the deceased Divine Shadow in IWHS and retrieved his memory, he was perceptibly receptive to Thodin's mention of his name and the Brunnen-G. I think the Divine Order - just like every fascistic organization that's ever been - was prone to overestimate itself. They thought Kai had been completely scrubbed of his personality, but it was the likes of Brizon and Mantrid who were just flattering themselves, really. That's why Kai was able to get back so much of his instinct for justice when he went on the crush the brains.

Angel, you wrote that you couldn't imagine a baby cluster lizard rolling around with a little red hat on... but it sounded like you had! (Or was that me?) How about a baby cluster lizard wearing a big black beehive wig atop it's three toothy jaws?

Abby1964
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 Posted: Mon May 30th, 2011 06:38 pm

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"Angel, you wrote that you couldn't imagine a baby cluster lizard rolling around with a little red hat on... but it sounded like you had! (Or was that me?) How about a baby cluster lizard wearing a big black beehive wig atop it's three toothy jaws?"

Now that I can envision considering Live Kai did "one night stand" the hard way.  At least this way he's Squish II's daddy and not his mommy!

Last edited on Mon May 30th, 2011 06:41 pm by Abby1964



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 Posted: Mon May 30th, 2011 11:29 pm

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Yes, I thought of that. Xev might already be pregnant before she takes off with Stan in Baby Lexx. Since cluster lizards are known to eat their mates' brains, it is necessary for them to have many offspring after mating, like the preying mantis and many spiders, so if Xev were going to have cluster lizard babies, then there will be many of them.

On the other hand, while Xev's cluster lizard proclivities are pretty well established in the show, it isn't really known if she will pass those genes on to her young - it was, after all, only the cluster lizard's head which got mixed up in her sex slave transformation process.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYp_Xi4AtAQ

Interestingly, the males don't really want to be eaten.


Last edited on Mon May 30th, 2011 11:32 pm by Be_You_


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