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Does Kai have emotions?
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
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Faith
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I know this has been dicussed a million times and everyone has their own opinion, but I think once a character is created, they have a life (or afterlife) of their own and even the writers no longer know everything about them.
I'm sorry if you find this poll annoying or if it's been done before. But it's not like this place is overflown with activity, and besides I get to use the "I'm new" excuse for the time being, so, please, bear with me. :)

Ketana
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Mana: 
no need to make excuses for wanting to put up your own poll..it's all good..just don't need the backhanded compliment regarding the activity here at this board..you should check out the other deadzones! *rolls eyes* anyhoo I voted!

darthomatic
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I voted no.

and I appreciated the character being written thusly. he had more dignity and was more interesting when not prey to a fruitless desire for emotions, curiosity, etc. was a masterstroke on the writers' part to exercise such restraint - themselves not falling prey to the temptation to anthropomorphise. well done, dudes :D

oh yeah, inserting the "I'm new" caveat. largesse gladly accepted :p

Faith
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Ketana wrote: no need to make excuses for wanting to put up your own poll..it's all good..just don't need the backhanded compliment regarding the activity here at this board..you should check out the other deadzones! *rolls eyes* anyhoo I voted!
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to hurt the board's or boardees' feelings. I was actually implying the poll section, since the last post here before I started this thread was from early September.
Yeah, I've seen the dead zones, I've seen them all. XD This board is bursting with life by comparisson.

darthomatic wrote: I voted no.

and I appreciated the character being written thusly. he had more dignity and was more interesting when not prey to a fruitless desire for emotions, curiosity, etc. was a masterstroke on the writers' part to exercise such restraint - themselves not falling prey to the temptation to anthropomorphise. well done, dudes :D

oh yeah, inserting the "I'm new" caveat. largesse gladly accepted :p

I'm really glad they didn't go down the I-want-to-be-alive or coming-alive routes. Because that has been done before, and done before, and done before. And besides, if the character wasn't the way he was, we wouldn't have the gems like Wake the Dead or Twilight. But I do believe he has some form of emotions. Not the same kind people have, but he shows devotion to his 'friends' and a moderate passion for justice. But like I said, it's all a matter of opinion, because he obviously doens't think the way we think he thinks.

Angel
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Mana: 
To Kai it was all logic, but I think there was still some emotion buried deep within him. Or he at least understood that his companions needed some comfort or actions of comfort from him, especially in Yo Way Yo where he kissed Xev for the last time.

darthomatic
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Twilight, you say?

a more crapulent piece of cinema I've not seen in a long time.  edward the girlish fop :P

darthomatic
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Mana: 
speaking of kai and emotions ... I recall one of angela carter's books has a chapter rich with prose on the nature of the imagined and the 'dead', and what same do to the innocent.

I'll dig it out and plaige it here for the non-masses :D. better yet, I'll crack open a new thread.

Faith
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darthomatic wrote: Twilight, you say?

a more crapulent piece of cinema I've not seen in a long time.  edward the girlish fop :P


My friend and I agreed that "Twilight" is referring solely to Lexx 2.13, the movie/book series is called "Twatlight" (which I know is horribly mean, but you have to call it something), and the time of the day is called "fuckin' dusk". And that is how it is because we obviously rule the English language. Even if we're the only ones who know that.
But in all honestly, I haven't seen the Twilight movies.

Last edited on Wed Dec 16th, 2009 02:08 am by Faith

darthomatic
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a thousand apologies.  you see that's what happens when you live in world polluted by the 'literature' of stephanie meyer.  of course you meant OUR twilight, not their fucked up product :cool:

Faith
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Of course. :D
I don't really have an opinion on Meyer's creation since you have to have read/seen something to have an opinion, but I've been warned by people whose judgment I trust that it's not worth my time, and I think I can live without having this particular opinion.

Ketana
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In my opinion I don't think it's necessarily emotions that Kai has but rather memories of emotions..my two cents.

Faith
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To be honest, as much as I enjoy the whole "The dead do not feel" deal, I don't think it would be possible for him to exist without emotions. Because feelings aren't just fear, love, pleasure, pride or pain. Without motivation at all, he'd never get out of the cryopod because there would be no point for him to defend Stan or Zev, to kill His Divine Shadow, to do anything at all. He would not be able to participate in a conversation without emotions, because you talk to someone out of curiousity/interest or out of respect or because you'd feel guilty about not talking to them. If you woke up one day without emotions, you would not get out of bed at all, because you would have no motivation to do so. You'd feel hunger, but no feeling of self-preservation would lead you to not fullfilling your bodily needs and you would die.
I think the charm of the "obligatory autisitc character" is not their emotionless per se, but rather the rare moments when they do show emotions. They're like a ticking bomb that everyone is anxious to watch explode, and when they do show a trace of emotion, it's so much more meaningful than it is with other characters. After all, one "I love you" in six thousand years might be frustrating, but it's a lot more meaningful than six thousand "I love you"s in a course of a decade.

darthomatic
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sadly, I have read meyer's so called work.  it wouldn't bother me so much if she wasn't make truckloads of money... not nearly so much.  I'd quite like to shoot her out of a cannon to see how far she flies :c030a:

meanwhile, kai and motivation.  I'm not sure that absence of emotion would necessarily equate to absolute ennui.  my computer is sans emotions (as far as I know ...), yet it Does Things just because I pushed a button.  it does far more than a lamp, or a toaster, but doesn't have any more emotion than those two species of hardware.  nor memory of emotion. 

and I think we've all seen examples of emotionally induced ennui.  it's often, in fact, the surfeit of emotion that robs motivation. 

Faith
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I don't want to shoot anyone out of a cannon, although I am slightly annoyed by bad stuff getting so much recognition, while good stuff goes by unnoticed. Good and bad are, of course, a matter of perception, but I have yet to hear a good review on Twatlight from a person that doesn't want to lick the chair Robert Pattinson walked past.

Well, Kai is not a toaster. He is when he's in the killing mode because in that particular moment he is merely a machine performing a program. But when he's not, he acts on "free will", which is in its essence an emotion. He participates in conversations to make people feel better, he follows up people's stories with questions of clarification to know more, he seeks justice and tries to do the right thing. Not only does he save everyone's butts upon request, but he makes an effort to do so against all odd. And he was certainly never programmed to do that. For some reason I doubt my toaster would go those lengths for me no matter how much love I show it.

Ketana
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I think Kai snapped when the Divine Shadow demanded from total obedience and he revolted! Fought back and found what little shred of humanity was left and from there came to terms with what he become of him at the hands of the DS..then made the conscience decision to 'live' as he would have wanted, caring for Xev/Zev and Stan and even 790 the most obnoxious head in the two universes! LOL

Faith
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Mana: 
I gotta say when he regained his memory, he did seem pretty pissed. I suppose even if you have a very minimal amount of emotions, waking up and realizing someone's used your body to kill the good, the evil, the weak and the beautiful for two thousand years can piss just about anyone off. Maybe even my toaster.
But I think you're right, he made an informed decision to exist the way he thought was right. Perhaps he's just emotionally handicapped. He doesn't completely lack emotions, they're just not fully functional, but he learned to make full use of them. He just has to remind everyone that he doesn't feel the same way everyone else does with his constant the-dead-do-not's, which is probably why he always looks so irritated when he tries to explain to the living that he doesn't function the way they expect.

CheshireKat
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If he didn't have emotions of some sort, he wouldn't feel protective of Stan and Xev.

darthomatic
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Mana: 
my computer snaps sometimes.  maybe I am it's divine shadow :xdiablo:

 

meanwhile, I still want to shoot stephenie meyer out of a cannon :)

darthomatic
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hahaha ... lick the chair Rpattz walked past :D

I have NO idea what the girlies (and more than a few women old enough to be his mama) see in him.  give me benecio del toro any day :c030a:

Faith
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CheshireKat wrote: If he didn't have emotions of some sort, he wouldn't feel protective of Stan and Xev.
Definitely. Maybe defending them from utter evil could be written off to logic, but collecting the remains of Zev's protein to "bring her home" is definitely an emotion-driven act.

darthomatic wrote: my computer snaps sometimes.  maybe I am it's divine shadow :xdiablo:
Maybe if I give it shelter from its vicious master, it's gonna jump into hell's pit for me someday.

I don't know what it is that attracts people to Pattinson. To each their own, I suppose. Strangely enough, he's one of the reasons I never wanted to watch Twatlight, I find him really inattractive. But that's just me, and I'm obviously a minority here.

Cesare
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It's up to everyone's interpretation of course, but I prefer to think of Kai as having no emotions of his own (in the traditional sense of that word).

Last edited on Fri Dec 25th, 2009 10:09 pm by Cesare

Abby1964
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I don't think he has emotions per se but he reacts to the emotions of others.

doorknob
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kai was showing emotion in tunnels when he was captured by the judicators. He was definately frustrated. And he shows emotions at other times too but I can't remember them off hand. its difficult for a human to write about a character with out emotions becuase we have them.

jimbo007nwo
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The stimuli Kai reacts to is the right/wrong concept, but he usually does not do anything unless asked by one of his crew members. In later episodes he does seem motivated like when he sought out Vlad.

LastBrunnenGstanding
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I went with other He does act and react with what is going on around him and the people they meet. If he is approached in a violent manner he will react the same way. But approached with out out threat he is pretty chill. He uses logic to understand his actions and choices of others. He is the voice of reason when he feels Xev and Stan are doing wrong. He does seem to have "feelings" from time to time you can see bits of them. Only thing is he does not express them the same way as a live person would. But he does care and want the best for his diffusional family members. So in a very ironic kinda way he is the most "alive" for been dead and all. He shows aggravation when Xev and Stan act stupid lol you see it in his body language and his harsh tone he use on them. You can see the wheels turning as he thinks up a plan to rescue or understand the problem they are in. Also he seems disappointed in Xev when she tells him "I love you kai" and goes chase live men for sex. He shows distress when he is unsure if they will live or die. For a dead guy he sure asks many questions when he needs clarification or is interrogating someone. Kai is way more complex then he think he is. If he would keep saying the dead do not things you'd think he was "alive".

 

Last edited on Thu Oct 27th, 2011 01:48 am by LastBrunnenGstanding

Warpax
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Well, I think he has them (at least after he got his memories back), but they are burried deep inside. Why else should he have said to Zev (after saying he will stay besides her till the rest of his protoblood is gone) "It is what I want." "Wanitng" is an emotion...
But I must agree - as I stated many times before - after Zev changed into Xev, almost no emotional reaction comes from him. When they are on Earth, small hints of them come up again.
So I think, he has emotions, but none could make them express except of Bluehaired Zev. (and his spirit ... but he died then, so I will not count that)

Last edited on Thu Oct 27th, 2011 07:26 am by Warpax

LastBrunnenGstanding
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Warpax wrote: Well, I think he has them (at least after he got his memories back), but they are burried deep inside. Why else should he have said to Zev (after saying he will stay besides her till the rest of his protoblood is gone) "It is what I want." "Wanitng" is an emotion...
But I must agree - as I stated many times before - after Zev changed into Xev, almost no emotional reaction comes from him. When they are on Earth, small hints of them come up again.
So I think, he has emotions, but none could make them express except of Bluehaired Zev. (and his spirit ... but he died then, so I will not count that)

yes we have had this chat of Zev vs Xev when it comes to kai's like who the best lol. he seemed to care a bit for Xev when they were on earth. But before that he was always cold and seemed very annoyed with Xev. He loved blowing her off hahaha he didn't like it when she acted to "cheap" and disrespected herself when she was chasing tail. Or when she leads him on and was head over heels over him till she found a live man. He seemed sad every time she did that to him. When she was telling Kai maybe she should do Stan since the universe's will end. Kai's faces looked pained as he answered her "Stan will be happy to hear that" paraphrasing big time. I was like noooooooooo!!!!!! Why would you tell him that lol. Followed by can't you see when he is starting to warms upish to the idea of liking Xev she blows it. Then he gives her the cold shoulder and is very short with her after and doesn't want to play her game. Till she acts mature once again and plays more mind games with the dead man for kicks :u055a:

Last edited on Thu Nov 3rd, 2011 08:20 pm by LastBrunnenGstanding

Warpax
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That's exactly my point! I was upset several times for her behaviour and I more than once imagined what could have happened if Zev had asked Kai to take the soap while her shover-scene... *yummy*. Or even think of "boomtown" I am sure he would have done something with Xev (just think of hands and a delicious mouth) :c030a:...*sigh* ....
We won't find that out anymore but I felt sad for it ended up this way for both of them. When I first saw season one over here it was like a "revelation" to me, when Zev finally kissed Kai! Then I had to wait some years to hear there is a series about Lexx not only the films and finally it was on German TV... and then my "card-house of beautiful dreams" crashed with Xev and the more and more growing distance between them. I could see the 4th season this year and my bad feelings about this became true in his sacrifice. At least some of the love I thought it was gone long time before had shown up in the last series but it never was this emotional than on first season (and this even though Kai was alive in last episode and HAD feelings)...

*sigh*

Last edited on Thu Nov 3rd, 2011 08:31 am by Warpax

Cesare
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I prefer to think that in Season 1 Kai seemed slightly more motivated because of the Prophecy and the obligation it represented.
When he said he wanted to spend the rest of his protoblood with Zev, he was controlled by the essence, so I'd take that one with a pinch of salt.
I believe his "emotions" are hollow echoes of what he remembered emotions to be - and reflections of whatever attitudes people displayed towards him.

Abby1964
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I think Kai's 'emotions' are like the food displays I used to see all the time in Korea.  You would walk into a restaurant and they would have all this gorgeous mouthwatering food displayed on the counter or in display cases.  You would want to just dig right in, the only problem was the food was fake.  Usually a plastic sculpture skillfully painted to mimic the dishes on the menu and let you see what the would look like.

That is Kai's emotions-not real but a skillful imitation of the real thing.  When you think about it, as a divine assassin there were probably times when he would need the ability to trigger emotion in others to obtain his objective.  The intellectual concept would be there and he would be able to mimic emotions without feeling emotions.


LastBrunnenGstanding
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To Cesare:
Was he been controlled by the bug essence when he said that? I thought the essences kicked in after Zev kissed him?:s010a: That's when his eyes got all black.
"I believe his "emotions" are hollow echoes of what he remembered emotions to be - and reflections of whatever attitudes people displayed towards him." This is a good theory of a point of view. I only say that beacuse the people who say he has feelings. They might find this a conflicting point. But it makes sences as well the possibilities are endless.

To WarPax:
Yes, I agree something would have gone down with Zev and Kai eventually. He would have accepted her sexual motions. With Xev I am not sure he would have been thrilled to service her as he would have with Zev ;) Here is some proof he would not be willing to mess around with Xev when they were on Boomtown. Even if Xev found a way to do anything with him I think he would walk out on her:cool:

That's a neat trick. Do other parts of you perform that well?
XEV
No. Other parts do not perform at all. You'll have to get your satisfaction elsewhere.
KAI
Likewise, Xev.

He seemed so polite with Bunny trying to get her to understan he is dead. He can not give her what she wants from him. Till Xev said the stupid that stupid thing about him not performing. He burned Xev as he snapped at her likewise. She could not get the guys to do her no matter how hard she tried. The only action she got was at Nook. If he could he would have the last laugh on that one. I sure as hell did and I savored every second of it some much I replayed it 5 times:2567:

To Abby:
"That is Kai's emotions-not real but a skillful imitation of the real thing. When you think about it, as a divine assassin there were probably times when he would need the ability to trigger emotion in others to obtain his objective. The intellectual concept would be there and he would be able to mimic emotions without feeling emotions."

Bravo:clapsmiley: to you Abby when you said this, it impressed me and swayed me a bit more towards your direction. and made me kinda re think my idea of his "emotions". But in some case I still think he really "felt" something and expressed them clear enough for us to pick them up.

Last edited on Thu Nov 3rd, 2011 09:24 pm by LastBrunnenGstanding

Abby1964
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I think the only true emotion that he ever felt as 'dead' Kai was in Yo Way Yo when he apologizes to Xev for not being able to love her the way she wanted him to.  Although he is not totally alive at this point, he already knew that something about his existence had changed.  Although the reason he felt regret is not automatically because he felt something for Xev.  Other than the time he is enslaved by Divine Shadow/the insect essence, Kai is never deliberately cruel.

It could have been because he realized the cruelty of fate in throwing them together, or the reason that I tend to lean toward is that his heart was already taken.  Remember he had a lover that had died and in Brigadoom the  this was a very committed relationship.  Perhaps he was trying to let her know that he was already committed to and in love with someone else, Prince bringing him to life would allow him to die and be reunited not only with his people but with his love, after 6000 years of isolation.

LastBrunnenGstanding
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I think the reason why he was more drawn to Zev was maybe beacuse she showed the same devotion his lover had for him. He seemed like he would be willing to give love a second chances with Zev. I know if I was his lover I would want him to find happiness again. I'd know we would see each other again and be together forever once he died. But I'd would be ok with him going out and finding love again. He would still have his memories of her and she would not be frogetten by him. But he could possably be happy with the idea of a clean slate and a shot of happiness. I think he would have don it with Zev rather then with Xev. His punishment in Brigadoom was to age so he would eventuly die and old man but a happy one. He would have wild tales to tell his kids and grand kids if you think about it.

Last edited on Fri Nov 4th, 2011 09:04 pm by LastBrunnenGstanding

CarrieCat
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To me Kai behaves like he has feelings, from his body language and comments and his dry sense of humor. However his emotional reactions do not last. When he first encounter a situation, his initial response is not Data like. But as soon as that initial reaction pass, he does not stay in that mood, and his actions afterwards are usually not based on that initial reaction. Now if that situation persists and keep bugging him, he does get annoyed (the judicators come to mind) It’s as if Kai’s mind produces feelings, but because he doesn’t have the life force/soul, he can’t sustain the feeling long enough to dwell on it. Also since he’s been around for so long, things/situations probably don’t seem as urgent to him as to normal people, not everything is life and death (heck death to Kai is not something to be afraid of anyways), so his initial reaction is milder to start with. Kai, the true Zen master 

LastBrunnenGstanding
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Oh,that's excellent point Carriecat that's am still working on getting WiFi so I am not on much. Welcome to the site the people here are very nice.

Cesare
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CarrieCat wrote:
To me Kai behaves like he has feelings, from his body language and comments and his dry sense of humor. However his emotional reactions do not last. When he first encounter a situation, his initial response is not Data like. But as soon as that initial reaction pass, he does not stay in that mood, and his actions afterwards are usually not based on that initial reaction. Now if that situation persists and keep bugging him, he does get annoyed (the judicators come to mind) It’s as if Kai’s mind produces feelings, but because he doesn’t have the life force/soul, he can’t sustain the feeling long enough to dwell on it. Also since he’s been around for so long, things/situations probably don’t seem as urgent to him as to normal people, not everything is life and death (heck death to Kai is not something to be afraid of anyways), so his initial reaction is milder to start with. Kai, the true Zen master 

Makes a lot of sense. Great analysis... :cool:

CarrieCat
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Thanks. It's so nice to find this forum with so much great information and discussion. I only wish I got into Lexx 10 years ago when I caught it here and there on Sci-Fi late night. Then again, I don't know if I would have appreciated it as much back then. The amount of satire is unreal, and so very refreshing. It make me laugh, but also make me pause and think “hey, I’m like that to some extend”.

LastBrunnenGstanding, I love your Dr. Kai poster! My husband just had an annual exam, he got a good laugh too.

LastBrunnenGstanding
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I was to young to watch it haha my I saw two or three episodes at a friends house. Hocked me watched it last year found this site never looked back. You point on kai's emotions were very fantastic :D Brava Brava. Hehehe Doctor Kai way a good angle huh thank you glad you two got a laugh. Your husband is a trooper and can find hummer from a "Traumatic" experience for the greater good :3

Be_You_
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Yes to all of the choices.


Kai's emotions are buried deep down... *and* they are not the same kind of emotions living people have... *and* he mostly reacts to stimuli in an action-reaction sort of way... based on logic and his understanding of right and wrong... and sometimes just plain "no" -- there's nothing there.


The Divine Shadow's Bio-Viziers and all of the Cluster's other apparatchicks overestimated themselves the way all fascists do always. They did not completely cleanse Kai of his bodily soul just as they failed to cleanse the last Shadow of his.

 

Last edited on Tue Feb 28th, 2012 05:46 pm by Be_You_

IvoryIsis
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Mana: 
CarrieCat wrote:
To me Kai behaves like he has feelings, from his body language and comments and his dry sense of humor. However his emotional reactions do not last. When he first encounter a situation, his initial response is not Data like. But as soon as that initial reaction pass, he does not stay in that mood, and his actions afterwards are usually not based on that initial reaction. Now if that situation persists and keep bugging him, he does get annoyed (the judicators come to mind) It’s as if Kai’s mind produces feelings, but because he doesn’t have the life force/soul, he can’t sustain the feeling long enough to dwell on it. Also since he’s been around for so long, things/situations probably don’t seem as urgent to him as to normal people, not everything is life and death (heck death to Kai is not something to be afraid of anyways), so his initial reaction is milder to start with. Kai, the true Zen master 

My exact thoughts. I study Buddhism although I'm agnostic, and a big part of the reason I was so attracted to the character was because he's neither dead, no alive, with no attachments. Zen. I think he does have some emotions but they are not as urgent or high as a living person's, and I think he cares for Zev/Xev and does get irritated with her going to be with living guys and leaving him to a point, but he gets over it. He understands why she does it as it's part of her nature. He doesn't show her his emotions because he doesn't wish to hurt her and truly wants her to find someone she can be totally happen with, so he doesn't interfere.

Last edited on Wed Jan 9th, 2013 04:17 pm by IvoryIsis

Nell
Heretic


Joined: Sat Jun 8th, 2013
Location: Moscow
Posts: 73
Status:  Offline
Mana: 
There is no a read more option here. But I really want to answer this question the following way (I won't be offended if U say that it's better to edit the post) but for now it is like this:

Thinking of Kai I always remember these poems^

Agamemnon's Warrior
A queer and fearful question is tight,
Oppresses my soul and tosses:
Can one be alive if Atreus has died --
Has died on a bed of roses.

All that we dreamed of and everywhere praised,
All our longing and fear --
Were fully reflected in those calm eyes,
As were in a glass of a tear.

Ineffable power dwelt in his hands,
A saga of feet was retold;
A beautiful cloud he was for his land
Mycenae -- the country of gold.

What am I? A fragment of ancient dread,
A javelin, fallen on earth --
Atreus, the leader of nations, is dead, --
But I have been spared by death.

The down is full with reproachful flame,
The waters enticingly sing,
It’s hard to exist with the horrible shame,
If one had forfeited one's king.



Eternal
I’m in the days’ embracing limits,
Where even skies are ever gray,
Look through the ages, live in minutes,
And wait for Holy Saturday;

The end of soul’s aimless travels,
Of lucks and troubles peaceful end.
O, come, my day when I’ll be able
To Know, See and Understand.

My soul will be so new and broad,
All, that’s alluring, will be mine.
And I will bless the golden road,
From blind worm and to golden sun.

And he, who went with me wherever,
Trough thunders and the silent peace,
He, who was kind to me in fever,
And cruel when I stayed in bliss;

Who taught me to a wisdom whole,
To fight, reserve, or overcome,
Will turn to me, and leave his pole,
And simply tell me, “We have come.



Giraffe
Today, I see, your glance is especially sad
And your arms, embracing your knees, especially thin.
Listen: far, far away on the Lake of Chad
Wanders a gentle giraffe.

He is endowed with slender grace and bliss,
And his hide adorned with a magical design
Which the moonlight alone, shattering and rocking
On the wide wet of the lake, dares to rival.

From afar he resembles the colored sails of a ship,
And his gait is smooth as the joyful flight of a bird.
I know that the earth will witness many wonders,
When, at sunset, he hides in a marble grotto.

I could tell merry tales of mysterious lands
Of a black maiden, a young chief's passion,
But you have too long inhaled the heavy mist,
You will believe in nothing but the rain.

And how can I tell you about a tropical garden,
Slender palms, the scent of inconceivable herbs...
Are you crying? Listen...Far off on the Lake of Chad
Wanders a gentle giraffe.
(c)Nikolai Stepanovich Gumilev

And I believe that if he had no emotions his image would never provoke these images in me.

Last edited on Mon Jun 10th, 2013 07:04 pm by Nell



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