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Be_You_
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 Posted: Sat Oct 15th, 2011 10:07 am

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Abby1964 wrote: I love the Klingons. There's something to be said about a people who live for their honor.

So much is true Abby, but I think as a species the Klingons were not so universally true to their self-representation (as is so common everywhere) than they would have liked others to know.

Indeed, though they were treated most sympathetically throughout most of TNG due to the particular focus on Worf's good character, I can think of examples where the species was shown to be just as capable of duplicity and cowardice as any other, and in Enterprise - from what little I've seen of the later series - I think perhaps the Klingons were the least favorably treated of them all.

In the original series, the Klingons were often shown capable of a degree of buffoonery due to their focus on pride, though I remember my favorite episode is when a malignant energy being invades the Enterprise and a Klingon vessel and in its quest to feed off hatred and anger contrives to have the groups fighting against each other with swords: the Klingon captain is able to overcome his wont and follow Kirk's logic and they end up linking arms and laughing at the creature to force its depart.

In TOS - which aired during the Cold War - I believe the Klingons were analogues for the communist Chinese and Soviets, even appearing to be red- or yellow- faced at times, perhaps depending on current events of the time.

One last thing, I can't remember a single episode of Voyager, but I do remember...


Last edited on Sat Oct 15th, 2011 10:08 am by Be_You_

Cesare
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 Posted: Sat Oct 15th, 2011 10:41 am

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For me, ST is TNG.
That's what I grew up with. Plus, TNG had the hottest (and the most likeable) ST captain, the awesomest crew (even awesomer than DS9), Q - and that profound "culturological" streak that I sooo love about it.
As far as I am concerned, TNG is what really counts, Klingon-wise.



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Abby1964
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 Posted: Sat Oct 15th, 2011 11:09 am

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I think a lot of what we saw was more that the 'bad' Klingons got the press. Most of the klingons we saw were usually the schemers and connivers not the true representation of the culture, just the bad elements. I have read a lot of the Star Trek Books and some of them went more deeply into the culture than the small glimpses that you got on the show, and Worf was more of an accurate representation of the culture than the Duras sisters.



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Be_You_
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 Posted: Sun Oct 16th, 2011 08:22 pm

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Interesting article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klingon that fleshes out what we've been discussing - including corroborating my long-held supposition about them being analogues for communists in the early series.

As described in the article, the Klingons underwent a bit of a metamorphosis - both in appearance and character - through the years, but left out is an account of how they were treated in the last series.

Interesting that just when Enterprise was being created - and the U.S. was beginning to engage enemies in the "War on Terror" (both real and imagined, regrettably) - that the Klingons reverted back to their sinister Cold War incarnation; and yet sensibly too, in that it fit the chronological sequence of the shows.

Could it be posited that the Klingon encounter with the Federation civilized them? Quite thin indeed!

None of this was covered in the Wikipedia article, which seems like it might need an update...

Last edited on Sun Oct 16th, 2011 08:25 pm by Be_You_

Cesare
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 Posted: Mon Oct 17th, 2011 04:10 am

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These ST analogies and allegories are quite blatantly obvious, esp. in TOS.
ST has always been pretty responsive to the political situation. Can't quite compete with Stargate in terms of straightforward US military propaganda, but that element *is* pretty profound in much of the ST franchise, methinks.



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Be_You_
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 Posted: Mon Oct 17th, 2011 01:31 pm

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Yes, I always felt it was somewhat obvious, though I never in the past found anyone to agree; mind you this was in the time before the internet and I didn't bring it up amongst a large group of devoted Trekkies. One episode in particular crystalized it in my mind: in the end Kirk recognizes a garbled version of the U.S. Pledge of Allegiance to solve the crew's dilemma.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Omega_Glory


In the wiki article, I was surprised to see this allegory reported not to have been introduced by Gene Rodenberry himself - who being a former LA police officer I attributed the show's martial tendencies to - but one of the writers. That said, Star Trek TOS was ground breaking in having minorities and women in positions of some authority, and TNG took on an almost comically un-militaristic tone at times when nothing would get decided on the bridge except after long debate and consensus.

(Also in the article, the name "Klingon" derived from Rodenberry's former partner on the force, Lt. Clingan.)

Stargate has a more obvious military tone, but I remember even the show Farscape at the time exhibiting signs of a similar leaning in regard to current events, such as when the torture of captives was depicted as being a particularly adroit manner of getting valueable intelligence; a process which has more than once borne rotten fruit in the real world.

 

Last edited on Mon Oct 17th, 2011 01:56 pm by Be_You_

Abby1964
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 Posted: Mon Oct 17th, 2011 02:16 pm

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Speaking of other shows that parallel current events I think Babylon 5 deserves a mention in being a bit more realistic in its depictions than ST Or Stargate.

Babylon 5 presented the political conflict but the characters were fallible. No single group is depicted as completely good or completely evil.

I find it a bit more believable than either Trek or Gate because every decision does not 'work out in the end' and there are consequences to the decisions made. Bad choices bring bad consequences and the characters must deal with the consequences that they caused.



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 Posted: Tue Oct 18th, 2011 02:24 pm

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B5 was an excellent series but if I was given only one choice to watch that over the original trek, I'd watch the original trek.

And as for SG1 it is a rip off of ST in many ways.

I preferred SG:Alantis, even though that is an off short of SG1.

Abby1964
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 Posted: Tue Oct 18th, 2011 04:30 pm

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B5 was a good show and the characters were more 'human'. They had prejudices and issues and everything didn't just end up perfect 60 minutes later. The story arc worked well from the beginning through to the end. Okay the final episode sucked, I wasn't very impressed with how it ended. It was a let down but getting to the ending was very good. Especially watching the characters deal with the results of decisions they have made in previous episodes or even previous seasons. It all tied together very well.

Although I like Star trek my peeve is that every issue gets resolved with a 'happy' ending. No matter what crisis they faced it was solved in 60 minutes and left you with the impression that everyone was good with the solution.  things that they left screwed up never came back to bite them on the ass.  Stargate was even worse because of the 'our way is the right way' mentality behind the thinking. It came across as a bit intolerant.

Last edited on Tue Oct 18th, 2011 04:33 pm by Abby1964



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 Posted: Wed Oct 19th, 2011 02:10 pm

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Good points. With regard to Star Trek TOS though, remember it was made during a time when there was a budding sense of hopefulness amid the terror of nuclear armageddon, and this was reflected in the scripts; even so, though I can't name the episode, I think there was one where the Prime Directive (non-interference) had been violated and the viewer was left feeling that the crew made the best of a bad situation.

Star Trek TNG, on the other hand, I think had more dark qualities at times, where lasting emotional wounds were incurred - such as in Picard was rescued from the Borg. Also I remember an episode of TNG where a young Cardassian member of the crew ended up dead following her voluteering for a secret mission.

Last edited on Wed Oct 19th, 2011 02:12 pm by Be_You_

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 Posted: Tue Dec 18th, 2012 05:23 pm

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Don't mind me, just coughing an errant katra back into a dormant thread.

If you like Trek, irreverence and a generous dash of foaming anti-Wesley hostility, swing by a site called SFDebris.com.  This guy specializes in video reviews that are equal parts hilarious, insightful, unabashedly geeky and just downright fun.  He made his bones posting reviews on Youtube before striking out on his own, and while Trek, in all its various incarnations, is his primary focus, he's since branched off and tackled other notable--and not so notable--sci-fi films and series.  Worth your time if you've got some to kill.



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Bilbo67
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 Posted: Fri Feb 27th, 2015 01:31 pm

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http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/27/arts/television/leonard-nimoy-spock-of-star-trek-dies-at-83.html?_r=0



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Bilbo67
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 Posted: Mon Nov 2nd, 2015 03:48 pm

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Hmm...

http://www.startrek.com/article/new-star-trek-series-premieres-january-2017



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 Posted: Wed Nov 4th, 2015 06:10 am

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Bilbo67 wrote:
Hmm...

http://www.startrek.com/article/new-star-trek-series-premieres-january-2017


Kewl! I've always hoped they'd do another series rather than just movies.



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Bilbo67
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 Posted: Sun Mar 13th, 2016 03:38 am

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Can't say I disapprove of this:

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/02/26/star-trek-cbs-reboot-nicholas-meyer


Dude already saved the franchise twice. Holding out for the hat trick...



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